In this first episode of Printed’s “Department Series”, join our host Vanessa Gomez and our incredible guest Laura Boyle, Art Director of Dundurn Press, as they talk about the design department in a publishing house. During this conversation, they discuss the general tasks the department handles and how they are involved in creating a book. Plus, for all those who want to join the department, there is a section with advice for your portfolio and application.
You can listen to the episode on your favourite streaming platforms or simply click play on the video below.
Transcript
Hi everyone, and welcome to Printed. I’m your host Vanessa Gomez, and since this is our very first episode, you’re going to learn a little bit more about me, what Printed is all about and what you can expect from this season. Plus, we have an amazing guest joining us today. Her name is Laura Boyle, and she’s the Art Director at Dundurn Press. So let’s start at the beginning. Why did I decide to create Printed? Since my teenage years, I knew that I wanted to work in the publishing industry. At that point, I was just kind of reading everything that I could buy with my parents money.
But life took a few turns, and I ended up studying journalism, and later I worked in corporate marketing. A few years ago, though, I was lucky enough that life brought me back to publishing, and I decided to pursue a Master of Publishing at Simon Fraser University, which is located in Vancouver. From all these experiences, one thing that really stuck with me was that without my master’s program, I wouldn’t have had access to so much insider knowledge about the industry, what each department does and how the whole process works.
That’s why it inspired me to create Printed as a platform where I could ask all those questions that I know young professionals need the answer to before entering the industry, and just help make the industry more accessible to everyone. This podcast is also produced by The Publishing Guide, which I founded. The Publishing Guide is an incredible website, designed to give you even more resources beyond this podcast to help you navigate your publishing career. Now, for this first season of Printed, we’re going to have a department series.
Which means that we’re going to explore each department in a publishing house, learn what the teams do and talk about how you can get into those departments if that’s your dream. To kick off the season, we’re going to start with one of the most creative sides of publishing, which is the design department. But before we dive in, don’t forget to subscribe and follow the podcast. We have some amazing guests lined up for this season, including professionals from the editorial and publicity departments and more. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
The Design Department in a Publishing House
Host: Today, we have an amazing guest joining us. She’s the art director at DurnDurn Press and has 15 years of experience working in the industry with hundreds of books. In that time, she has worked on many projects, from well-crafted textbooks to novels. She has also worn many hats in the publishing industry, from working in marketing and editorial departments to finally making her way to the design department. She is also a typography enthusiast and has studied Art History at Concordia University and at Lasserebone in Paris. She also has a publishing degree from Toronto Metropolitan and a certificate in Digital Media Studies from OCAD University. Please, everyone, welcome Laura Boyle to Printed.
Host: Hi Laura, how are you?
Laura Boyle: Hello, I’m good. How are you?
Host: Good, good. Are you ready to get started?
Laura Boyle: Yes.
Host: Perfect. So we’re to warm things up. I’m just going to start with a section I like to call the “What Are You” section. So Laura, what are you reading, listening to, and watching at the moment? It doesn’t have to be related to books. It can be any series or movies that you’re watching at the moment, or any music that you’re listening to at the moment.
Laura Boyle: I’m currently reading Isolla by Allegra Goodman. So far, I think the feeling that it arouses in me is like, I’m really angry because of the way the main character has been treated so far. But I mean, I have a really good feeling about it. So it’s really quite captivating, this book. And I’ve been watching in the evenings, this old show that came out when I was a kid called Dr. Katz, and it’s, he’s a psychotherapist, and it’s kind of the device is he’s a therapist and then his patients are all real comedians that were popular at the time. He has guests like, I mean, every comedian from the 90s is on this show, and they kind of like act as though they’re his therapy patients, but they also basically are just doing their stand-up routine. So it’s very, it’s very funny. Really fun. It’s a cartoon. Yeah, it’s a really good. a great show.
Host: That’s amazing. And what are you listening to at the moment?
Laura Boyle: I’ve been listening to a lot of records because I like to put on records in this time of year when it’s kind of about, you know, looking inwards. Yeah. So kind of ambient music, and I’ll just like to do some evening activity. Like I’ve been sewing. I’ve been learning how to sew lately, and yeah, I got my mom’s sewing machine, and it’s a good way for me to feel connected to her. And so yeah, listening to records or listening to audiobooks. I haven’t listened to a lot of audiobooks until just this year, and it’s been a kind of new development for me. So it’s kind of fun to take in,
Host: From my part, what I’ve been reading to is Heart the Lover. What I’ve been listening to is actually an audiobook. I’ve also been listening to audiobooks this year. So I’ve been listening to The Capital of Dreams, and what am I watching at the moment? I’m actually watching with my sister during the night, a Spanish series called Respira, which is just like a medical drama, kind of like your Grey’s Anatomy, but like in any Spanish setting. It’s really good. I would really recommend it to anyone. So let’s start talking a little bit more about you.
How did you first get started in the industry?
Laura Boyle: I mean, I guess I can go way back. And then, okay, it’s kind of a complicated story because, I think unlike most children, I had a unique kind of experience of, being kind of surrounded by, publishing as sort of understanding that it was a career from a young age before I understood what other jobs were like that, that, you you grow up in and are an adult and have to do a job, you know, a lot of kids don’t really grasp onto that until later. But I grew up in a small town called Fredericton, New Brunswick, and it has one of Canada’s best independent publishers. And my neighbour was the publisher of that, and a good friend’s mother was the art director there. So then I think like, they kind of influenced me in this way. So when I went to my first, like, Take Your Kids to Work Day, I was there at that publisher and for some reason, I also got myself a job at a bookstore. As a child, when I was eight, I just walked into this bookstore. I don’t know, I don’t think that would ever happen in today’s world because we protect our children a lot better. But I just went home and told my mom, like, I got a job at this bookstore, and I’m going to be going there every Saturday. And it was really this like magical little spot where you know, it’s like everything you might think of in a movie where the bookstore owner is this sort of cranky older woman. She kind of just ignored me and let me do my own thing and I would kind of just putter around in the books.
It started out as one smaller store and then kind of expanded. The store grew more successful every year; it would get bigger and higher. So by the end of my time working there, it was like three stories tall and took up the length of this.
Host: Oh, wow. It really grew.
Laura Boyle: Yeah, I would just go there and get lost and just hang out with books for a while, and I got paid in books. So I would take them home.
Host: Oh, that’s a pay that anyone who likes books will take, like, yeah, give me free books. I’m there.
Laura Boyle: Yep. Yeah. So then there was that like early days of, you know, just being really kind of immersed in this world. But then I kind of forgot about it when I became a teen and into my 20s. I was really well, especially after I finished my degree. So I did an art history degree, which was awesome. It’s a great degree to get because you learn alot. But the thing is, I wanted to be an artist, and at the time, I wasn’t brave enough to just go be an artist or go to art school. I felt like I needed the approval of my grandparents, and you know, that was sort of more of an acceptable degree, I guess. So it was like me getting as close to the thing that I wanted as I could, but it was, it was like a great education. You learn about, you know, history as well as art and the politics of the time you can’t like, learn about art in isolation, right? Like, you have to learn about geography and politics and all that. So, yeah, so that, but when I finished that, I didn’t know what to do. I also had a double, I think it was a double major with English Lit, and I thought I had many sorts of small possibilities, possibilities, but nothing that I knew how to pursue.
I was living in Montreal, and I kind of had it in mind that I would go into museum curation, but of course, that requires so much more education. I was in Montreal my French wasn’t, it wasn’t great. Like, I am bilingual, but it wasn’t good enough for Montreal for the arts and culture scene. So I was just applying for jobs and becoming more and more disappointed. Meanwhile, working at restaurants and sort of feeling like what to do.
Host: Yeah, I think we all go through, at least me, that I’m in my 20s, I’m going through, like just figuring out what it is that I want to do. I kind of know the industry, but what is it that I really want to do?
Laura Boyle: Yeah, I’ve been thinking about that today. Just when I was thinking about this interview, probably talking to maybe your audiences, people who are at the beginning of their careers and just like that kind of feeling. I remember it really well. Like, how am I going to get to where I want to go? It was worse because I didn’t know where I wanted to go. So yeah, happens. It happens to everyone. But then I remembered, like, I think kind of just, I had this long-standing love of books and of you know, working with books, and I had done a lot of my own books, like book projects, I guess, just like for fun. So yeah, from Montreal, I started long-distance learning. But that wasn’t for me. Like it’s not for a lot of people. It’s really hard to do. So then I moved to Toronto to, like, try to pursue it more seriously.
Because I was on my, I was on financial aid and I didn’t have a full course load and I was going to, I needed a full course load to get my financial aid. So, for publishing, I was a little bit late to sign up for the courses, and they were all full. And so then I had to find something to fill those slots. So then I went and took some from the graphic design program, hoping that they wouldn’t notice, and they didn’t notice.
Don’t tell them, am I going to trouble now? It’s been like 20 years, but yeah, some amount of time. So yeah, then that’s how I ended up in pursuing the design part of, and realizing that I really enjoyed type setting and that aspect of book design or book creating. Then I took a bunch more courses to complete the graphic design aspect of it. In the meantime, I started working, so most of the time you have to do an internship, which is like, yeah, just to get into the industry. It’s a huge barrier to access. It’s hard to get even those that are like really competitive.
Host: Yeah, I’m in my process right now of applying to any internship, any job that I can see online, and they are super competitive.
Laura Boyle: Yeah, so I applied for a bunch of internships, and then I was on like Craigslist, which I’m not even sure if people still use Craigslist.
Host: I’m sure they use it for something. I’ve never heard of job hunting. Don’t think so. Yeah.
Laura Boyle: And there was a job listed there that I was like, not even sure if it was fake or not, but I decided to check it out. It was for a publisher, and it was, like, in Liberty Village, which was great. Before Liberty Village was what it is now. It was like in this old, loft building, and it was basically like, it was called Educational Solutions Worldwide. They had purchased the intellectual property of this 1 academic scientist who, as I recall, was somewhat successful in the 70s, and he had an enormous body of work. So this company had basically, like, the year before, driven down to New York City and taken all of these things out of a storage locker, and we’re in the process of just like, they had them all scanned, but back then, scanning wasn’t great. So you had to like, find the typos and, and then modernize them and create kind of a more modern look for these textbooks. It was kind of just like Intro to Typesetting 101.
Host: It was perfect for the future.
Laura Boyle: Yeah, exactly. I stayed there for, I think, a couple of years, actually, because as I stayed, like some people left, and then I would sort of take on their roles until eventually I was doing like everything. The company wasn’t super successful so they weren’t hiring new people to replace them. So it was just me, you know, hey, Laura, like I really need you to figure out inventory, how we’re shipping, you know, managing all the shipments and like all those administrative tasks. Then suddenly I was like, okay, I don’t think you should trust me with your accounting, though. But it really was good to get experience in all these different areas of publishing, I guess, like not to say that I would have. Then I got hired into the marketing department at Dundurn and just worked on the marketing materials. Then the role came up in the design department, and I was able to become a junior designer there and then work my way up.
Let’s talk about what you’re doing right now. You’re the Art Director of DunDurn. So what does a day look like for you? What are your daily tasks?
Laura Boyle: Okay. So we publish about 50 books a year, or we aim for, I think we’re a little bit lower than that now. Let’s say 40. I’ll usually be typesetting a book, inserting corrections, and those aren’t the most exciting aspects of the job, but they do allow my mind to rest, because there’s also, like, more, just constantly churning in the back of my mind, how to solve creative problems. Like when it comes to the book covers, so like how to approach different designs. And I’ll usually have like three or four covers that I’m kind of mulling over or actively working on and making mockups.
Looking for images or trying to flesh out the brief to give it a fuller vision before we assign it to another designer. Yeah, or I work on marketing materials still, you know, events, promotions from social media, things like that. Because it’s more, I think some people assume that the design department is just like, it’s only book covers, but actually, the design department works on more things every single day. I guess it depends on the company, because, you know, the larger multinationals will definitely have their own, totally separate marketing and book cover designers. But at the smaller independent publishers, you’d probably be asked to take on more.
For a while, we at Dundurn, we had it separate as well. As I said, I started in the marketing department as a marketing designer, but then, with the pandemic, we had to sort of fold these two jobs into one. So we ended up having to take the marketing materials in-house, and sorry, into the department. So now, you know, a bit of a smaller team, but it’s another thing that adds variety, I guess, to the day, because you do a little bit of everything. Yeah. You can’t always be working on it, I find it hard to always be working on book covers. There are periods where I don’t have other things going on, and I’m just working on book covers, and I feel like it’s just, it’s really hard on the brain to be thinking about.
Host: Because you have to be creative all the time. Yep. And I bet that one book cover is not just one, and then you send it, and that’s it. I bet you go to revisions and, like, ask the author, ‘Does the author like it?’ Does it work with marketing? So you actually like working on book covers more than one time.
Laura Boyle: Yes, and that is another aspect of my job, which is that I communicate with the authors, which is somewhat unique. I think that it’s not the same for every publisher, and some publishers, an editor will send the cover over to the author, and they’ll discuss it. But personally. I think it works better. I find through experience, because we used to do it that way too, but. I find it works better when I am able to speak directly with the authors, sort of if they object to it, sometimes there can be a bit of broken telephone. Depending on the editor, they don’t necessarily understand graphic design and like some people, some editors do and, that works maybe a little better, but there can be a bit of broken telephone where like the author says they don’t like it, but then it’s, it’s like, but what don’t they like, you know, like what are they reacting to? Do they hate the whole thing from top to bottom, just like the typography or one colour? And that’s what I found so many times is that, like, no, it turns out they just didn’t like this one tiny thing I can easily change. I would have thrown the whole thing out if I hadn’t found out it was just this one little detail, so easy to change and then we are all like thrilled at the end. I love that process too, but I’m really grateful to be able to do it myself and not have someone kind of in the middle trying to parse it out. And I don’t think editors love that part of the job either.
Host: I bet editors are so busy that they’re good if the design department takes care of that part.
Laura Boyle: That’s what I hear, and then sometimes I do require some help from the editor; it depends. But it’s good to have different ways to approach different situations. Absolutely, every book is unique, and every author is unique. Absolutely.
Host: What you were just mentioning: sometimes, for big houses, they have their own design department that handles book covers and stuff like that. I know for independence, as you said, sometimes it’s more like you take on more work.
When it comes to the design department specifically, is it the norm for publishing houses to hire in-house designers, or do they also hire freelancers?
Laura Boyle: I mean, I think some smaller publishers. This is my understanding. Some smaller publishers don’t have in-house designers. Or they will have editors who also design. So they’re wearing all hats. Then they’ll freelance out covers, too or some publishers let the author do it. I’ve seen that I think it is more of a vanity. Historically, at Dundurn, we have at times had the budget to freelance books as well. So we were kind of more of a hybrid situation in that regard. But right now we do everything in-house.
Host: Yeah, that totally makes sense and at least I know that the first step when a manuscript gets in-house is just acquiring the manuscript.
So at what point, does the design department get involved in just the inside layout or even the book cover as soon as the manuscript is acquired?
Laura Boyle: Yeah, pretty much as soon as when the contract is signed, one of the first things that goes to the author, along with signing the contrac,t is their cover concept form, which they start inputting ideas because we do want to get started on the cover. I mean, it depends. Like, sometimes we acquire a book, but we’re not actually putting it in the next catalogue. Like it’ll be, you know, three seasons away and then, then I’ll wait. But if they’re filling gaps in the catalogue and like trying to put, you know, schedule books in for the next season or whatever, I might need to get started on it like right away. And then because it’s a, it’s one of the main sales components. So the first thing that we’ll use to promote the book sales is the catalogues and, yeah, the presentations. So yeah, I sometimes have to get started on the cover before the manuscript is even in.
That’s why I get as much input as possible from the author immediately. That’s really interesting reading what they see for their vision for the cover.
Host: Because I bet that as the author writing the book, I bet that they have a specific image that they want to reflect on the cover. So I bet they have a lot to say about it.
Laura Boyle: Some do, and some don’t. But sometimes it doesn’t turn out like they thought, and you know, I’m not going against their wishes. Like they still are happy because they don’t necessarily, you know, they’re picturing something, and that’s great, but they’re open to something different too. That’s great.
Host: Yeah, that’s good, and with all these things that we’re talking about, like that, the design department does book covers, inside layouts, marketing material, all that stuff. I bet that as a designer, you need a variety of skills in your toolbox that you can use daily.
Off the top of your head, what are the top 5 that you will say, like, okay, any book designer that wants to work inside a publishing house should have this?
Laura Boyle: Okay, you definitely need to understand typography and the different kinds of voices of type and the way that they are expressive or just functional. Colour theory, colour, you know, that’s a big one, obviously, but and then on a more kind of, I guess, subtle level equally important is how to think metaphorically and images like. Because you don’t want your book cover to just. You don’t want the imagery on the book cover to mirror the title; it needs to be something that’s kind of married to the title, but not a direct repeat of what the title says. So you have to be able to think of imagery evoked by the content, or the title, or whatever. Sometimes it’s not even like an image that is directly spoken in the book. Sometimes it can just be like something that totally nails the content somehow. It’s sort of a bit of mystery, but yeah, you need to be able to think on that level. Then I mean, you need to be able to work with Photoshop and InDesign because those are the two main software. The main ones, and then Illustrator is a pretty great tool to have too.
Host: And then one last one.
Laura Boyle: One last one. I mean, iteration, I don’t know if that’s a quality, but you have to be able to come up with multiple ideas, not just one, right? Every book cover, you iterate, and you come up with like three, five, know, 25 different concepts. And a few of them need to be equally strong for the marketing department, then consider and choose the one that works best, not because it’s the nicest or whatever, but because it is the best for the market, the one that’s going to attract the audience. It’s like, not because this one is a bad design and these two are good, or vice versa. But because, yeah, basically being able to come up with different ideas to portray one.
Host: No, those five totally make sense for all the work that the design department does.
Laura Boyle: There’s probably more.
Host: I bet. I bet it’s like a lot more.
Laura Boyle: If people need to think about it, yeah, those are kind of the five that I will say.
Host: Like, me not working in the design department, I can see that you will need those skills. And if people want to kind of demonstrate those skills, especially when they’re, for instance, applying to a job.
Do they need a degree to demonstrate their skills or work experience? How does that work?
Laura Boyle: Well, I’m not one to say you need a degree because I don’t have one, but it helps. I’m sure it helps. It’s how the world works. I don’t want to knock publishing certificates, but I don’t think they’re going to get you into the design department on their own. You need at least some work experience. So the last two designers I’ve hired worked in ad and kind of think, marketing firms, advertising, you know, as I guess junior designers or something. And that gave them the skill set. But then in their portfolio, even though they’d never worked on published books, they had book covers that they had imagined, you know, and that’s a really great way to show you can take a book that already has a cover and give it a new equally great cover or three. Actually, it’s good to show different directions. But also, it just gives me the, you know, I can see that they have the sort of understanding of the components of a book cover, and it might seem obvious, but they’re just sort of, sort of conventions with book covers that are innate, but not. Not everyone knows them.
Host: Absolutely. Yeah, no, that makes sense, and that actually allows me to move into the next section, which was more practical, like tips for any young professionals that want to join the industry. And you just mentioned a portfolio. So I bet like, especially for the design department, portfolios are very important. So, based on what you just said, like the designers you hired, they had example book covers in that portfolio.
Is that something that anyone applying to the department should at least aim to have examples of, for instance, more publication design, like magazine layouts or book covers? Would that help them?
Laura Boyle: Book covers for sure. mean, magazine layouts, yeah. I mean, they’re nice to look at. Yeah, does show, actually, layouts are generally a lot more design-y, I guess is the word, than books, but you have a whole range of other publishers that do a lot more complex book layouts as well. Yeah, that’s great to show you can do complex book interior layouts or magazines, whichever. And yeah, if you have illustration skills, those are very handy. In fact, I mean, you kind of need to be able to do some illustration if you want to be an in-house designer.
Host: Absolutely. Yeah. I’ve seen lately so many book covers that you can see the design is so intricate. That is definitely an illustration. Yeah. Those are the ones that people are buying all the time now.
Laura Boyle: I mean, a lot of those are, they hire the illustrator, and then they’ll work with the designer. So I didn’t want to say straight up, you need to be an illustrator to work, but it’s a good tool to have. It’s a good tool to have because sometimes, too, especially with the indie presses, like you’re not always working, you’re sometimes working with stock images. Actually, what I was saying, you’re always working with stock images. So then you need to sometimes like adapt those. In fact, you don’t ever really want to press to publish the image as you found it. You definitely have to modify it, or else you’re going to see that same image somewhere else. Everywhere. So lots of image editing and then some trendy covers just have more basic illustration too, and that’s a great thing to be able to do yourself as well.
Host: That makes total sense, and now I’ve also, for instance, I’m very interested in the marketing department, which you also worked in. But I know, for instance, for marketing, especially for internships or new jobs, having a social media presence, it really shows that kind of like your commitment to that department.
For the design department specifically, should designers put their work out there and have a social media presence? Does that help at all?
Laura Boyle: For sure. Yeah, I mean, it can help. I would check their portfolio online if they had one. I was doing quite a bit of social media stuff, and then the last year, I think I’ve just lost interest in it.
Host: It happens with the algorithm changing all the time, I get it.
Laura Boyle: I think it’s too much. Then with AI, it’s just like, no, thank you. don’t like, I don’t know. I mean, I feel a little bit of a loss because I miss the sense of connection. But I did, I liked sharing my work. So I think it’s a great thing for someone who’s getting a start, too, because they’ll get a lot of people, propping them up and getting them good feedback and stuff. Yeah. And I bet that definitely helps, especially because design is such a creative department. Yeah. So that definitely helps.
Host: And for instance, like, I know that people who are also joining the industry sometimes worry, like, I don’t have a network. I don’t have any connections.
Do you think that actually starting to network, and even if it’s like, through informational interviews or anything, trying to connect with people, does that help get your foot in the door, especially as a designer?
Laura Boyle: I think designers can be quite anti-social creatures. But yes, I think it does help. I think it really helps, and you don’t know the ways that it will help immediately, and it’s awkward and hard, but there are opportunities to network for designers. And I mean, there’s an RGD conference. It’s expensive, though, but I think for students, there’s one in BC, one in Vancouver and one in Toronto. I think they have a discount for students, and I love going to that. I find it really inspiring. And they do sometimes have, often I think they’ll have one or two sessions on book design. So I love that. conference, although I haven’t been able to go in the past couple of years. I don’t want to speak about anything specific because there is something I’m thinking of, but I think it’s for professional book designers. So it wouldn’t be for students. But yeah, there must be so much I’m not thinking of right now, but like those types of networking, I used to love going to creative mornings when I lived in Toronto, I just moved a year ago, but creative mornings it’s downtown somewhere and they just a bunch of creatives get together in a room and they’ll have someone presenting on their specific area of interest and I’ve met lots of people through that. It’s also just, yeah, like you plant these seeds and then they grow at some point years later, and you’re like, I did that. You have no idea where people will end up.
Host: Yeah, for sure. I know that when I started networking in the industry, I was so scared. I think if it’s encouraging to anyone listening, when I started networking and actually putting myself out there, I found that a lot of people in the industry are willing to talk to you.
Laura Boyle: Yeah, everyone loves talking.
Host: Yeah they like talking about it. So if you’re feeling discouraged, please don’t. I think a lot of people love talking about their jobs, what they do, and the industry itself. To everyone that I’ve talked to whenever I said, thank you so much for like, giving me this time. They’re always like, don’t worry. I understand what it is. I understand what it is like trying to get into the industry and like getting all this knowledge. So yeah, everyone is so kind and willing to, like, talk to you about any questions you might have. So yeah, please don’t stop networking. It’s a great way to meet people in the industry. And for my next question, I think I already know the answer, but I’m going to ask it anyway.
Should young professionals, especially designers, prepare for a competitive industry when applying to these jobs in publishing houses?
Laura Boyle: I mean, but I don’t want to discourage anyone. It’s like, I don’t know. Yes, it is a very competitive industry. There are so many people, and the thing is, too, with design, it’s people who are, they’re not just streaming in from the publishing certificate, they’re streaming in from all other fields because it is a dream job for people. So yeah, I don’t know what to say about that other than like, it is competitive.
Host: I think publishing itself is competitive in every single department.
Laura Boyle: Yeah, every department. I do feel lucky. I used to think I just stumbled into this position, but then I realized there were like points along the journey that were leading me to it since I was eight years old, which was in my time. But at the same time, I didn’t have to do the thing that I think, I’m not sure, but might be where people turn around and leave, which is the internships. Yeah, because when you’re on your second or third internship. It’s a barrier to access, and I don’t necessarily agree with internships as a way to get into an industry. guess that’s just the way it is. I hope that it gets better. Yeah, I hope it becomes more accessible over time.
Host: And I think we’re already seeing at least those kinds of changes, even with the kind of authors that the industry is publishing and that stuff.
Laura Boyle: I hope that also reflects on the people who are hiring into the industry and how accessible we make those positions for a variety of people. I think they have started to have to pay people interns so that’s one good thing, a few years ago it was like relatively unpaid like just a stipend that people would get so like that’s not possible unless you have another part-time job, so you’re just running around with two jobs.
Host: And to just finish this section of like advice for like young professionals
Are there any additional things candidates can do to stand out, especially in the design department?
Laura Boyle: Well, I guess I think I’ve said it, having a really solid portfolio is really the way. It can be an Instagram page. It doesn’t have to be like this, you know, book of, you know, art, but yeah, and as you were speaking, I was just thinking of another kind of very obvious trait that is necessary, which is following trends, understanding what the trends are in book design. Always having your finger on the pulse of what is contemporary and happening.
Host: That sounds great. That’s great advice. Yeah. Okay. Well, I have asked you a lot of questions, so it’s time for a fun break. So this is our literary rapid-fire quiz. All right. You can just answer as quickly as you can. You don’t have to overthink.
Literary Rapid-Fire Quiz
Host: Favourite book genre?
Laura Boyle: Literary fiction.
Host: Alright, great. Go to author.
Laura Boyle: I don’t always stick with one author. Well, I do love Heather O’Neill. I’ll say Heather O’Neill.
Host: Okay, great. Prefer reading a snack if you have one.
Laura Boyle: Some cheese and crackers.
Host: Perfect. Best book format. Hardcover, paperback, ebook or audiobook.
Laura Boyle: For me, it’s an ebook because I wake up multiple times a night, and then I’ll just read. It’s like these little five-minute blips, but I’m reading throughout the night, and the ebook is the least sort of disruptive.
Host: Totally. Buy or borrow books?
Laura Boyle: I would say buy just because it’s better for the industry, but Borrow is equally great because everyone deserves to be able to read.
Host: Absolutely. One book that you wish you could read for the first time.
Laura Boyle: I actually just want to say the book I just finished, which is funny. There’s more, but I just finished Wild Dark Shore, and the experience of reading that book was like, it’s by Charlotte McConaughey.
Host: Reading Beverage. I know you already said wine, but tea or coffee?
Laura Boyle: I actually do both. So, okay. I drink coffee first thing, but if I could, I would drink more, but I can’t. So then I move on to tea, and I drink many cups of tea throughout the day.
Host: Okay, that sounds great. Are you a morning reader or a night reader?
Laura Boyle: Both.
Host: Yeah. Are you a fast or slow reader?
Laura Boyle: Slow.
Host: Yeah. And finally, if you could recommend one book to everyone, what would it be?
Laura Boyle: I’m just going to pull a book off my shelf. No, because it’s hard to think of one book. I’m going to have my brain short-circuit. This is a good book, and it’s really topical. It came out a few years ago. I think she has a newer one, but How To Do Nothing by Jenny O’Dell. It’s like we’ve all lost our attention spans through social media, and the faster the world goes, the more we just can’t sit still. And it’s really important to regain that. Um, especially if you’re an artist or a designer, like being able to use your imagination, and our imaginations are sadly being taken from us. We need to hold on to that. That’s what I think about a lot these days.
Host: That’s a good recommendation and I also love the book cover.
Laura Boyle: Yeah, me too. It’s very nice. It’s a very nice book cover. I like this too. It’s the book jacket is slightly… I forgot the for this actually.
Host: Yeah, I don’t know the word for it, but it looks very nice. Well, you have survived a rapid-fire quiz. just got to the end of the interview. So we just have a short Q&A section of questions from the audience, which, in this case, is my publishing cohort.
Q&A
What are the challenges of maintaining a cohesive visual identity across a press list? Across a press list. So if you’re trying to maintain an identity throughout all titles in a season, what’s the challenge in that?
Laura Boyle: We just have to keep everything unified. We have a template for each book trim size. So that when the books are on the shelf, you know, the colophon is always in the same place across the bottom and that the, you know, the barcode and everything is in the right place. But because Dundurn publishes such a wide range of materials, we don’t have one style for book covers. For series, you know, you would want the typography to remain consistent and generally like the style of the image to be, if you’re going to be illustrated. You’ll have a certain type of imagery in the book, and you’ll have a certain kind of target you’re looking for to match.
What are some trends in book cover design that you’re excited about or tired of seeing?
Laura Boyle: Starting to get tired of seeing the extremely busy, colourful. I think everyone is starting to feel tired of seeing what was termed the blob cover by some unkind media outlet, I forget who first called it that, but just that sort of colourful abstract pattern behind the bold typography. I guess it’s a useful device if you’re trying very hard not say anything, but it’s kind of… I’d rather see a quieter type. The reason why typography just got big and in your face is that we’re looking at our book covers generally on thumbnails, phones, like Amazon, even like any bookstore. So that means now we can’t do like a nice subdued type, and I’ve seen people pushing back with that. Yeah. And, I’ve seen book covers that don’t even really have text on them, they’re just an evocative image. I wouldn’t really be allowed to do that. But these are responses. These are responses to the trends that brought book covers to be so busy. We want we seek quiet.
What would you say is the biggest challenge in your work right now?
Laura Boyle: It’s a challenge to always feel like you’re getting better, improving and as a designer, you have to always be improving. You can’t just sit on your laurels. You have to keep up with the times, learn new technology, and, yeah, just always be learning, growing, and getting better.
Host: Yes. And finally, for our last Q &A.
Do you have any advice for young designers on how to practice their skills to ultimately work for a publishing house or in the industry?
Laura Boyle: Learning the software is a great place to start. Just get doing it because you are interested in growing that skillset. I mean, most people are probably like me, where it’s hard to just be self-motivated to grow your portfolio just because, without the promise of a job. So then you need to find projects that inspire you to do that, Even if it’s like, if you like a book, I bet like just redesign the cover and then add that to your portfolio. Or like even just work on posters for your room or something. like work with that is also for you. Like, just playing around with image and type until you get a sense of how the two work together and find your own style, whatever makes you feel excited.
Host: Thank you so much. Well, that was all the Q &A that we had today. Laura, thank you so much. This was such an amazing conversation. Thank you for sharing your insights and your experience with us today. Before we wrap up, where can people follow you? Where can people find your work? I’m on Instagram at @LauraBoyleDesign. I have a website lauraboyledesign.com, which actually is woefully out of date, but it’s so hard to keep all these balls up in the air.
Host: That sounds great and one last thing, many people who are listening are at the beginning of their careers and probably struggling to find their place in the industry. And I know that after a few rejections, that can be really tough on someone. Could you share some encouraging words for these young professionals who are just getting started and maybe they’re feeling a bit down right now?
Laura Boyle: Yeah, man. I really feel your pain, and I think it’s important to just be kind to yourself and not think that it’s something to do with you. Like, there are a lot of challenges in the industry that are not your fault. There’s a lot of opportunity, though, too. So keep, if that’s your course. I mean, just, guess like when it happens for you, like whatever it is, it’ll happen all of a sudden. And then you’ll be on the other side of it.
Host: Yeah. Soon, this is going to be a bad memory.
Laura Boyle: Exactly and then you’ll be like, you’ll kind of forget, I guess, maybe how hard that was, but yeah
Host: Thank you so much again for joining us for the first episode of Printed.
Laura Boyle: This was my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Next Episode
And that’s a wrap for the first episode of Printed. Next episode, we’re going to be joined by Hazel Miller and Jay Miller from Book*hug Press. So make sure you follow and subscribe so you don’t miss that episode. You can also visit thepublishinguide.com for free resources and more information for this season’s guests. Follow us on Instagram @thepublishinguide for updates and behind-the-scenes content. Remember to leave any questions you would like to see in future Q&A’s for any department in the comments section.
Please note that any views expressed in this podcast are personal and do not reflect the opinions of the host or the guest employers. Thank you so much for listening, and I’ll see you on the next episode.